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	<title>Comments on: Can we please stop the Social Media ROI discussion already?</title>
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	<description>Helping Business Navigate the Social Web.</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin De Kock</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4857</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin De Kock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4857</guid>
		<description>@michael @linda thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave your comments

@kris forgive me if there was even the slightest suggestion that we abdicate our responsibility to  be accountable for the cost of the services we provide. I just happen to think that client success stories are the most effective way to sell any new product or service. I remember asking a real estate agent once what he thought a house was worth after we had taken the tour and his answer was &quot;whatever you are willing to pay for it&quot;. If clients see real value, I think they&#039;ll pay for it, and a competitive market will ensure that the service eventually becomes affordable to everyone.

@olivier thanks for your comments but I really don&#039;t believe I&#039;ve added anything other than to say &quot;let it go and lets focus on what really matters, our clients&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@michael @linda thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave your comments</p>
<p>@kris forgive me if there was even the slightest suggestion that we abdicate our responsibility to  be accountable for the cost of the services we provide. I just happen to think that client success stories are the most effective way to sell any new product or service. I remember asking a real estate agent once what he thought a house was worth after we had taken the tour and his answer was &#8220;whatever you are willing to pay for it&#8221;. If clients see real value, I think they&#8217;ll pay for it, and a competitive market will ensure that the service eventually becomes affordable to everyone.</p>
<p>@olivier thanks for your comments but I really don&#8217;t believe I&#8217;ve added anything other than to say &#8220;let it go and lets focus on what really matters, our clients&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Troiano</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4850</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Troiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4850</guid>
		<description>Here here.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://scalableintimacy.com/?p=571&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Engagement&quot; is bullshit.&lt;/a&gt; Now let&#039;s get to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here here.</p>
<p><a href="http://scalableintimacy.com/?p=571" rel="nofollow">Engagement&#8221; is bullshit.</a> Now let&#8217;s get to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Ireland</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4855</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4855</guid>
		<description>Your 3 points are grounding.  As with many other new tools we learn and adopt or toss, the enduring &quot;what to focus on&quot; ideas like yours are the most intelligent.  Our customers fundamentally pay us for solving a need or problem.  So if social media helps us get them to a problem solved better or faster - ta da - payoff.  If it gets in the way it is a wasted investment.  We may live with a debate about HOW to use social media for a while longer, but the answer regarding WHAT is the ROI is clear.

You may also be interested in this post: http://tinyurl.com/n6ewoj for a different take on the performance payoff question.  Thanks for your post.

As a consultant with way-longer time in the executive chair, my first kudos to you is your bold statement that the final word belongs to clients. Indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your 3 points are grounding.  As with many other new tools we learn and adopt or toss, the enduring &#8220;what to focus on&#8221; ideas like yours are the most intelligent.  Our customers fundamentally pay us for solving a need or problem.  So if social media helps us get them to a problem solved better or faster &#8211; ta da &#8211; payoff.  If it gets in the way it is a wasted investment.  We may live with a debate about HOW to use social media for a while longer, but the answer regarding WHAT is the ROI is clear.</p>
<p>You may also be interested in this post: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/n6ewoj" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/n6ewoj</a> for a different take on the performance payoff question.  Thanks for your post.</p>
<p>As a consultant with way-longer time in the executive chair, my first kudos to you is your bold statement that the final word belongs to clients. Indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: olivier blanchard</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4856</link>
		<dc:creator>olivier blanchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4856</guid>
		<description>Kevin, thanks for including me in your links.

You write: &quot;The CEO at my previous gig used to say that the only reason he would spend a dollar on I.T was if it either increased revenue, decreased costs or improved communication.&quot; Two of those are the very definition of ROI, and the third is the most important non-$$$ related impact on his mind. He defined value to his organization as 3 distinct elements: ROIr, ROIc, and improved communications. Isn&#039;t that a pretty good illustration that for most CEOs (at least), ROI is pretty clearly defined in terms of value to the org?

What I don&#039;t understand is that while you pepper your post with great examples of ROI as a primary value to execs and end with three brilliant points, you open up the discussion with &quot;unfortunately I have no brilliant insights to add other than to suggest that if we haven’t figured it out by now then the magic bullet probably doesn’t exist.&quot; :D We HAVE figured it out! ROI is simply what it is. And as far as what matters to your clients, you&#039;ve figured it out as well: Ask them and they&#039;ll tell you. So where&#039;s the question mark? There&#039;s nothing confusing about this.

I wish we could put the ROI debate to rest though since 1. ROI is and always will be what it is: Return on investment, and 2. Each company has unique needs, aspirations and objectives (including but not limited to ROI) that must be understood, mapped out, and plugged into every new program.

Good post though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, thanks for including me in your links.</p>
<p>You write: &#8220;The CEO at my previous gig used to say that the only reason he would spend a dollar on I.T was if it either increased revenue, decreased costs or improved communication.&#8221; Two of those are the very definition of ROI, and the third is the most important non-$$$ related impact on his mind. He defined value to his organization as 3 distinct elements: ROIr, ROIc, and improved communications. Isn&#8217;t that a pretty good illustration that for most CEOs (at least), ROI is pretty clearly defined in terms of value to the org?</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t understand is that while you pepper your post with great examples of ROI as a primary value to execs and end with three brilliant points, you open up the discussion with &#8220;unfortunately I have no brilliant insights to add other than to suggest that if we haven’t figured it out by now then the magic bullet probably doesn’t exist.&#8221; <img src='http://socialmediagroup.com/new/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  We HAVE figured it out! ROI is simply what it is. And as far as what matters to your clients, you&#8217;ve figured it out as well: Ask them and they&#8217;ll tell you. So where&#8217;s the question mark? There&#8217;s nothing confusing about this.</p>
<p>I wish we could put the ROI debate to rest though since 1. ROI is and always will be what it is: Return on investment, and 2. Each company has unique needs, aspirations and objectives (including but not limited to ROI) that must be understood, mapped out, and plugged into every new program.</p>
<p>Good post though.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris C.</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4844</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4844</guid>
		<description>I need to add.... I definitely see your points about potentially much ado about little. But with any industry populated by &quot;consultants&quot; of varying expertise, you need the terminology, categories and solid skillsets defined by which standards and best practices and expectations can be set, because companies are going to hire employees and consultants to do this stuff. Because of that, the Social Media ROI discussion is timely and relevant, and that&#039;s why I don&#039;t want the debate to end, but rather am glad that it&#039;s raging. We need to nail this down, before more dollars are wasted on more useless reports and failed campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to add&#8230;. I definitely see your points about potentially much ado about little. But with any industry populated by &#8220;consultants&#8221; of varying expertise, you need the terminology, categories and solid skillsets defined by which standards and best practices and expectations can be set, because companies are going to hire employees and consultants to do this stuff. Because of that, the Social Media ROI discussion is timely and relevant, and that&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t want the debate to end, but rather am glad that it&#8217;s raging. We need to nail this down, before more dollars are wasted on more useless reports and failed campaigns.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris C.</title>
		<link>http://socialmediagroup.com/2009/06/22/can-we-please-stop-the-social-media-roi-discussion-already/comment-page-1/#comment-4845</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialmediagroup.com/?p=1114#comment-4845</guid>
		<description>You ask &quot;Can we please stop the Social Media ROI discussion already?&quot; and all I have to say is: I sure hope not!!! As far as I&#039;m concerned the subject is JUST beginning to be addressed. Why would you want to shove it under the rug and never get to the point where we can craft and execute plans of real value for clients and companies we work for, rather than floundering about aimlessly hoping something we do will work? This is a new industry, despite sites like MySpace and good old-fashioned discussion boards having been in existence for years. And the industry will change as it matures. We should embrace new methods, means and measures in order to create lasting goodness with our efforts. My opinion, at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask &#8220;Can we please stop the Social Media ROI discussion already?&#8221; and all I have to say is: I sure hope not!!! As far as I&#8217;m concerned the subject is JUST beginning to be addressed. Why would you want to shove it under the rug and never get to the point where we can craft and execute plans of real value for clients and companies we work for, rather than floundering about aimlessly hoping something we do will work? This is a new industry, despite sites like MySpace and good old-fashioned discussion boards having been in existence for years. And the industry will change as it matures. We should embrace new methods, means and measures in order to create lasting goodness with our efforts. My opinion, at least.</p>
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